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	<title>Comments on: Preaching the gospel to animals</title>
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	<link>http://bridgingschisms.org/2008/09/preaching-the-gospel-to-animals/</link>
	<description>investigating other people's beliefs</description>
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		<title>By: Eshu</title>
		<link>http://bridgingschisms.org/2008/09/preaching-the-gospel-to-animals/comment-page-1/#comment-711</link>
		<dc:creator>Eshu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 20:42:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bridgingschisms.org/?p=139#comment-711</guid>
		<description>Clark,

Welcome! Firstly, my apologies if I failed to notify you about this post - I always try to do so when I quote someone or reference their blog.

&lt;blockquote&gt;I’m propossing the Bible makes sense whether it’s true or not. If it’s not true it would almost be required to make more sense, in order to attract the billions of followers it has drawn from throughout history.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
What you are suggesting would imply that other religions which (from what I&#039;ve read) are equally as confused and self-contradictory as the Bible, must also be true. Surely if Hinduism was a lie, they&#039;d have written a better lie, no?

If the Bible is a message from God, intended to communicate a message to all of humanity, then it is most surprising that it has failed to do that consistently. It seems that there are many Biblical matters, some important, &lt;a href=&quot;http://themasterstable.wordpress.com/2009/07/21/discussions-that-are-academic/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;some less so&lt;/a&gt;, on which Christians cannot agree. I think these people are sincerely trying to understand what they think God is telling them, but they come to very different conclusions. We may not be able to tell which (if any) of them are right, but we can tell that most of them must be wrong. A little under a 3rd of the world population self-identify as Christian, within which there are still widely differing beliefs. It&#039;s safe to say that if God is trying to communicate a consistent message to humanity, He&#039;s failing.

So why should a book so apparently nonsensical be so popular? Over on Daylight Atheism recently, commenter &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/07/another-cult-leader-convicted.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Scotlyn brilliantly suggests&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Perhaps unreadable, contradictory, infantile holy books work so well because they can function as a &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rorshach_test&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Rorschach test&lt;/a&gt; - what readers see on the page reflects whatever happens to be in their heads. If such books were more lucidly written, they might force the reader&#039;s attention away from &quot;what they want to see&quot; towards &quot;what is written there&quot; and trigger a more critical approach.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clark,</p>
<p>Welcome! Firstly, my apologies if I failed to notify you about this post &#8211; I always try to do so when I quote someone or reference their blog.</p>
<blockquote><p>I’m propossing the Bible makes sense whether it’s true or not. If it’s not true it would almost be required to make more sense, in order to attract the billions of followers it has drawn from throughout history.
</p></blockquote>
<p>What you are suggesting would imply that other religions which (from what I&#8217;ve read) are equally as confused and self-contradictory as the Bible, must also be true. Surely if Hinduism was a lie, they&#8217;d have written a better lie, no?</p>
<p>If the Bible is a message from God, intended to communicate a message to all of humanity, then it is most surprising that it has failed to do that consistently. It seems that there are many Biblical matters, some important, <a href="http://themasterstable.wordpress.com/2009/07/21/discussions-that-are-academic/" rel="nofollow">some less so</a>, on which Christians cannot agree. I think these people are sincerely trying to understand what they think God is telling them, but they come to very different conclusions. We may not be able to tell which (if any) of them are right, but we can tell that most of them must be wrong. A little under a 3rd of the world population self-identify as Christian, within which there are still widely differing beliefs. It&#8217;s safe to say that if God is trying to communicate a consistent message to humanity, He&#8217;s failing.</p>
<p>So why should a book so apparently nonsensical be so popular? Over on Daylight Atheism recently, commenter <a href="http://www.daylightatheism.org/2009/07/another-cult-leader-convicted.html" rel="nofollow">Scotlyn brilliantly suggests</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>Perhaps unreadable, contradictory, infantile holy books work so well because they can function as a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rorshach_test" rel="nofollow">Rorschach test</a> &#8211; what readers see on the page reflects whatever happens to be in their heads. If such books were more lucidly written, they might force the reader&#8217;s attention away from &#8220;what they want to see&#8221; towards &#8220;what is written there&#8221; and trigger a more critical approach.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Clark</title>
		<link>http://bridgingschisms.org/2008/09/preaching-the-gospel-to-animals/comment-page-1/#comment-710</link>
		<dc:creator>Clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 11:48:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bridgingschisms.org/?p=139#comment-710</guid>
		<description>This discussion is long dead, but I came across it after Googling my name.  Yeah I do that sometimes.

&quot;I think the assumption that the Bible makes sense is unwarranted.&quot;

Either 1) the Bible is a message to us from the true God, so if he is indeed communicating with us it would have to make sense.  
Or 2) the Bible was created to deceive people into believing a false religion.  If you were making the Bible up, knowing that it wasn&#039;t true, why would create something that didn&#039;t make sense?  Nobody would fall for that.  If you&#039;re telling a lie, wouldn&#039;t you want to tell a good lie?

I&#039;m propossing the Bible makes sense whether it&#039;s true or not.  If it&#039;s not true it would almost be required to make more sense, in order to attract the billions of followers it has drawn from throughout history.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This discussion is long dead, but I came across it after Googling my name.  Yeah I do that sometimes.</p>
<p>&#8220;I think the assumption that the Bible makes sense is unwarranted.&#8221;</p>
<p>Either 1) the Bible is a message to us from the true God, so if he is indeed communicating with us it would have to make sense.<br />
Or 2) the Bible was created to deceive people into believing a false religion.  If you were making the Bible up, knowing that it wasn&#8217;t true, why would create something that didn&#8217;t make sense?  Nobody would fall for that.  If you&#8217;re telling a lie, wouldn&#8217;t you want to tell a good lie?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m propossing the Bible makes sense whether it&#8217;s true or not.  If it&#8217;s not true it would almost be required to make more sense, in order to attract the billions of followers it has drawn from throughout history.</p>
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		<title>By: Eshu</title>
		<link>http://bridgingschisms.org/2008/09/preaching-the-gospel-to-animals/comment-page-1/#comment-382</link>
		<dc:creator>Eshu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:18:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bridgingschisms.org/?p=139#comment-382</guid>
		<description>Aha, thanks for the info, NewAgeAlchemist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aha, thanks for the info, NewAgeAlchemist.</p>
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		<title>By: NewAgeAlchemist</title>
		<link>http://bridgingschisms.org/2008/09/preaching-the-gospel-to-animals/comment-page-1/#comment-381</link>
		<dc:creator>NewAgeAlchemist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jan 2009 08:39:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bridgingschisms.org/?p=139#comment-381</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve no doubt it probably wasn&#039;t wide spread but there are stories of it happening.

St Anthony preaching to fish.
St Francis of Assisi preaching to the birds and other creatures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve no doubt it probably wasn&#8217;t wide spread but there are stories of it happening.</p>
<p>St Anthony preaching to fish.<br />
St Francis of Assisi preaching to the birds and other creatures.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt M</title>
		<link>http://bridgingschisms.org/2008/09/preaching-the-gospel-to-animals/comment-page-1/#comment-168</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 11:43:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bridgingschisms.org/?p=139#comment-168</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s true - I was perhaps exaggerating slightly, but I still think that the likes of Augustine would have had less of an issue with modern scientific theories than some of the current Biblical fundamentalists. Once he&#039;d had a chance to digest it all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s true &#8211; I was perhaps exaggerating slightly, but I still think that the likes of Augustine would have had less of an issue with modern scientific theories than some of the current Biblical fundamentalists. Once he&#8217;d had a chance to digest it all.</p>
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		<title>By: Maria</title>
		<link>http://bridgingschisms.org/2008/09/preaching-the-gospel-to-animals/comment-page-1/#comment-166</link>
		<dc:creator>Maria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 19:25:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bridgingschisms.org/?p=139#comment-166</guid>
		<description>Preaching to rabbits, eh? Yes, that is amusing. But why only include the cute, fluffy mammals? Don&#039;t parasitic nematodes deserve the chance for salvation, or amoebas or bacteria or sea sponges or flatworms? I can just imagine someone preaching to the bacteria on his skin. What a pity that no one actually does that!

Matt M, I&#039;m not so sure about that. It&#039;s easy to say that reason should take precedence when the closest that exists to science is still called &quot;natural philosophy,&quot; before the use of reason can threaten some of the most integral concepts in the texts. Suppose Augustine were suddenly to spring into existence again, and see the divergence between the Genesis story and modern evolutionary theory. That&#039;s quite a larger conflict than the ones Augustine probably dealt with, and I don&#039;t think it&#039;s safe to assume that someone who said reason should prevail, when the biggest conflicts were probably small textual quirks like the one addressed in this post, to carry over that principle in the later centuries, in much bigger issues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Preaching to rabbits, eh? Yes, that is amusing. But why only include the cute, fluffy mammals? Don&#8217;t parasitic nematodes deserve the chance for salvation, or amoebas or bacteria or sea sponges or flatworms? I can just imagine someone preaching to the bacteria on his skin. What a pity that no one actually does that!</p>
<p>Matt M, I&#8217;m not so sure about that. It&#8217;s easy to say that reason should take precedence when the closest that exists to science is still called &#8220;natural philosophy,&#8221; before the use of reason can threaten some of the most integral concepts in the texts. Suppose Augustine were suddenly to spring into existence again, and see the divergence between the Genesis story and modern evolutionary theory. That&#8217;s quite a larger conflict than the ones Augustine probably dealt with, and I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s safe to assume that someone who said reason should prevail, when the biggest conflicts were probably small textual quirks like the one addressed in this post, to carry over that principle in the later centuries, in much bigger issues.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt M</title>
		<link>http://bridgingschisms.org/2008/09/preaching-the-gospel-to-animals/comment-page-1/#comment-164</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 11:18:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bridgingschisms.org/?p=139#comment-164</guid>
		<description>&quot;sounds like you’re letting modern ethics influence your interpretation&quot;

Well, according to some of most famous Christian thinkers (Augustine, Aquinas, etc.) that&#039;s what you&#039;re supposed to do. Augustine - in the 4th century! - argued that if the Bible comes into conflict with reason it&#039;s the latter that should win out. You can just imagine him slapping his forehead in despair at the Biblical literalists around nowadays.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;sounds like you’re letting modern ethics influence your interpretation&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, according to some of most famous Christian thinkers (Augustine, Aquinas, etc.) that&#8217;s what you&#8217;re supposed to do. Augustine &#8211; in the 4th century! &#8211; argued that if the Bible comes into conflict with reason it&#8217;s the latter that should win out. You can just imagine him slapping his forehead in despair at the Biblical literalists around nowadays.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Madewell</title>
		<link>http://bridgingschisms.org/2008/09/preaching-the-gospel-to-animals/comment-page-1/#comment-163</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Madewell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2008 22:19:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bridgingschisms.org/?p=139#comment-163</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve already posted my first article in the series a month ago, but I just can&#039;t seem find the inspiration to write the sequels. Well, here it is.
http://superstitionfree.blogspot.com/2008/08/kjv-bad-english-1-jesus-answers.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve already posted my first article in the series a month ago, but I just can&#8217;t seem find the inspiration to write the sequels. Well, here it is.<br />
<a href="http://superstitionfree.blogspot.com/2008/08/kjv-bad-english-1-jesus-answers.html" rel="nofollow">http://superstitionfree.blogspot.com/2008/08/kjv-bad-english-1-jesus-answers.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Eshu</title>
		<link>http://bridgingschisms.org/2008/09/preaching-the-gospel-to-animals/comment-page-1/#comment-162</link>
		<dc:creator>Eshu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2008 17:38:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bridgingschisms.org/?p=139#comment-162</guid>
		<description>Matt M, sounds like you&#039;re letting modern ethics influence your interpretation.  ;-)

the chaplain - Well I&#039;d call that a success! Praise be!  ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt M, sounds like you&#8217;re letting modern ethics influence your interpretation.  ;-)</p>
<p>the chaplain &#8211; Well I&#8217;d call that a success! Praise be!  ;-)</p>
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		<title>By: the chaplain</title>
		<link>http://bridgingschisms.org/2008/09/preaching-the-gospel-to-animals/comment-page-1/#comment-161</link>
		<dc:creator>the chaplain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2008 14:49:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bridgingschisms.org/?p=139#comment-161</guid>
		<description>I used to preach at my dog. When he was a puppy, I exhorted him not to pee on my carpet. By the time he was an adult,  he rarely fell into sin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used to preach at my dog. When he was a puppy, I exhorted him not to pee on my carpet. By the time he was an adult,  he rarely fell into sin.</p>
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