And if there isn’t a God, then what is the point? I would be pretty disappointed to find out that there isn’t a God because that means that this life is pointless.

It’s very interesting that you say you’re interested in what is true, then go on to make an emotional appeal like this. Instead of presenting some evidence that there is a god, you remind people of how much you’d like for there to be a god. How worrying death would be without a god. This is not looking at what is true and supported by evidence, it’s looking at what you’d like to be true.

I think that speaks volumes about the Christian case for god’s existence.

There is so much evidence for God that some people are so blinded to even see it.

On Jason’s idea that if there is no God then we should all be nihilistic – why is that not the case? I’m an atheist, so is my partner, so are most of my friends, and yet we all seem to be very considerate and moral people. We don’t mug old ladies, we don’t cheat on our partners, we don’t maim small furry animals just for fun and we don’t indoctrinate our children into believing in ridiculous stories with the promise of eternal damnation if they don’t do what we say (oops, I mean what “He” says).

But I guess having morality without religion is a different topic so maybe I shouldn’t have brought that up here :oP

I think Penguin Pete has hit the nail on the head there. Since there is absolutely no evidence for the existence of God it makes logical sense to live your life the best you can, assuming “He” doesn’t exist. If it turns out we were wrong and face his judgement after death? I’m sure any merciful God would be very accepting that his children were using their “god-given” big brains and living the best life they could. After all, if he was that bothered, wouldn’t he have provided more evidence for his existence? It wouldn’t take much, just a big booming voice announcement across the whole world, would take just seconds out of his busy schedule… (what exactly is he doing now anyway?)… Oops, I think I’ve strayed into the “diminshment of god” argument!

All things ‘have a purpose’. The purpose of a penguin is to catch fish for itself and its family and that has nothing to do with God.

if the scriptures hold true, however, then its obvious that god holds man’s life as the most loved and most valued of his creations – placing man’s seat of glory and honor even above the angelic host.

IF.

actually, i would say that many more people would be uncomfortable with the idea of giving an account of their lives to a completely holy, just, and omniscient god… the idea of oblivion would be comforting in comparison.

I agree. Problem is, most Christians only think of the bliss of heaven without thinking too much about the judgement part. Or rather, fortunately for them. It allows them to live more happily. What is your opinion regarding judgement before such a god? How do you think you will fare?

Regarding what you think you will be doing in heaven, what does the bible say? I only remember the parts where it said you will be singing praises to God eternally. Or something to that effect. And that’s only logical, since there will be no more problems to attend to. Are there some passages in the bible that says otherwise?

What God could blame me for using the brain I was given to logically conclude from all evidence that His existence is questionable, and then try to live in the best manner possible without thought of my own reward?

The Christian one. LOL.

Atheism gives me the power to say: “Once there was no me, now there is a me, soon there will be no me again. The Universe doesn’t care. I’m comfortable with that.” Then I live in such a way that my morals are determined by what’s beneficial to the human race. In a way, this is actually humanism, but I’m agnostic anyway, so it doesn’t matter.

In fact, even it were objectively shown to me that there is a God and I’ll have to answer for myself postmortem, I’d still take this view. What God could blame me for using the brain I was given to logically conclude from all evidence that His existence is questionable, and then try to live in the best manner possible without thought of my own reward?

Meaning has a different meaning from purpose.

they do have different definitions, yes, but they are bound together in their meanings. you can’t define the ideas of far or close without first understanding the concept of distance and distance would be meaningless if values such as far and close can’t be assigned to it. purpose denotes meaning and meaning points to purpose. you cannot have one without the other. even if you believe (illogically) purpose exists apart from a creator – you haven’t stated why you believe that or what that purpose might be. i can insistently state that a dog’s tail is actually a leg but that doesn’t make it so.

You mean the ONLY thing that makes your life more valuable than that of a dog’s is that you have the concept of a creator-god whereas a dog doesn’t?

i can’t help but notice that you didn’t give an answer to my question. to answer your question, though, without a creator i could only say that my life was more valuable which is very convenient since the dog can’t dispute me. if the scriptures hold true, however, then its obvious that god holds man’s life as the most loved and most valued of his creations – placing man’s seat of glory and honor even above the angelic host.

So the problem here is not that objects or humans have no purpose, it’s just that according to YOU they have no purpose

no, its according to the logic. if life was unintended, undirected, if it just happened – it is, as i (and many atheists) have stated before, an accident. it was not caused to happen – it was not purposeful. you can deny that logic if you like but i believe that you already earlier conceded it.

Exactly, that’s what you believe

yes, belief in part by natural revelation and in part by faith.

Many people are uncomfortable with the idea that one day they will completely cease to exist.

actually, i would say that many more people would be uncomfortable with the idea of giving an account of their lives to a completely holy, just, and omniscient god that gave them their life to begin with. the idea of oblivion would be comforting in comparison.

Hmm…I’m curious… so what else do you think christians will be doing on the ‘new earth’?

that would be a pretty exhaustive and extensive list – i would, however, be pleased to discuss it with you – we just have to narrow it a bit. is there a specific topic pertaining to that subject you would like to talk about?